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[S1E5] Just Another Day At The Shore \/\/FREE\\\\



After this, Max is on a plane, as she has won the contest and is now heading to San Francisco. There is nothing important to look at here, just look around and interact with what you see and eventually the Principal will wake up, triggering another cutscene which will bring Max to the art exhibit.




[S1E5] Just Another Day at the Shore


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And that's the brick wall France ran right into this week, standing on that sailboat, thinking she was going to cold-bloodedly confront George with his crime and play judge jury and executioner on that water. There was no cold blood other than in George's veins; there was no winning this fight. The moment she told him the truth, he showed her the beast inside, and he ran her over just as sure as his car ran over her son. She was left a sniveling, sobbing mess, obediently piloting his boat back to shore with him alive as he sneered at her pathetic failures.


Thank you so much for joining us on discover economics. How did I get here? podcast? Just who or what is an economist, there's an economic lens for every topic that you can possibly think of the economists in our podcast are motivated by a desire to change the world. And their belief that better data and better understanding are key to achieving this theme. I'm very excited and enthusiastic about learning more about what economics can offer us as a society. And what are the options when it comes to careers for young people. And it's been an absolute delight to do this series on To learn more, to indulge my noisiness to get to ask so many questions, I'm hoping you as listeners will have wanted to ask yourself, thanks for listening. Now, I obviously enjoy speaking to all of the guests. For the podcast. I particularly enjoyed this one. And not just because will is Scottish, although of course it helps. But it was so interesting to speak to well, because he was chief economist of Spotify and what this interview does, I mean, his whole career brings together his love and passion for music, as well as economics. So there's some real fascinating storytelling and advice here. And, you know, will has also written a book recently, which we mentioned in the podcast am Tarzan economics, which I would definitely recommend you go and get, I actually have downloaded it on Audible, because I love an audiobook. So go out and check that out. And it's, you know, really accessible. And I think that quite a few if you're a teacher, or an you're thinking about introducing like older students or a level students to economics is quite a good way in actually it's not like Freakonomics or any of those books. That's a little bit more, you know, for me for Joe public. It does take things up a little notch, but I think it would be worth checking out. Definitely. So I hope you enjoy the episode. I really did. It's I think this might be the one that's most left field, shall we say? coming out to as the likes of the chief economist at Spotify and previously for other music organisations. So dive in, have a listen and let us know what you think. So today, we are joined by wil Paige well is the former chief economist of Spotify and prs for music really pioneered rock and omics, publishing work on Radiohead in Rainbows, saving BBC six music and articulating the global value of music copyright, his book tours on economics, it principles in pivoting through disruption publishers on the first of April, he has served as a fellow of lscs Marshall Institute, right 2020 and has been appointed fellow to lscs. European Institute starting in May 2021. Hi, well, it's lovely to meet you. And thank you so much for taking the time to tell us exactly how you got to your thank you so much. Great to be here. And I really support your course. Oh, good, good. You've given me a little bit of info just before we started about your book, we were talking about discover economics and what we're trying to do. And you gave away a bit of a spoiler that the last line of your book is exactly related to what we're trying to do. So I'm going to jump right in there and ask you, what is the last line of your book? So we're gonna hop skip and jump 323 pages? was an 18 months, blood, sweat and tears, just wrap it up? Who needs thought? Yeah. Well, the last sentence of the book is my way of trying to capture the journey that I've been on in terms of being an economist and a very unusual position, I think I was, and continue to be the only economist in the music industry, which technically makes me a monopoly. So I should be smashed up into little pieces. And it's just a very, very unique career path. But the way they wrap the book up, and we'll call back to the contents of the book later, I guess those simply say, don't wait for your job description. Create your job description. And I came up with that lay when I was doing some work on women in STEM subjects for high school students are looking at filling in UCAS forms and people asking like we don't see courses and doing what you're doing, like combining your passion of music and economics. You know, how do we get on that course? I said, there isn't one and that's the point. Don't wait for your job description. Create your job description. I think this, this this passive response of, I'll see what jobs are out in the market and respond to them is the wrong way to approach a career path in economics. Look at what you've got a job description and sell it into your employer. I love that. And true across so many things, not just economics. I do a lot of work with young people we're trying to do mentoring and have taught in the past. And a lot of my conversations kind of tinker around that area. You know, the job that is there right now. I mean, this is a bit of a cliche, you know, might not be there in five to 10 years start knowing what you enjoy and what you are passionate about and what you can make a living doing because let's face it, we've all got bills to be paid. is really important. And sometimes you don't know that until you just start doing stuff, I suppose as well, I love that. And we definitely will come back to the other pages and all of that other hard work that you put into the book, a promise won't just come down to that end, quote, quick punch my surname there, thank you very much. unintentional, but I'll take it. But it's interesting to think that the management teams of companies, which are probably putting out job postings, without a minute's thought can really describe what they need. Yeah. And I just love your listeners, be it the students be at the parents who are thinking about their, their children's career in economics to consider flipping the table and saying, I know what I've got to offer. And I know that they need it. And there's nothing wrong with having that level of confidence, when you're looking at the job market to go up to a failing company and say, I know why you're failing. And I know what it's going to take to succeed. You know, the whole purpose of like, you know, the job market is to stand apart from the crowd, then why Russ? Why wait for your job description, just go out there and create one, sell it. Yeah. And that's the thing, like I said, the managers don't necessarily know, I mean, I'm sure you've come across this as well, the amount of people I speak to by the job descriptions they put out into the marketplace, or the job descriptions that people have, that do not match what they do every day. And the person putting out the job description, looking for a new member of staff doesn't entirely know what they need until that person's in place. And so many times people will be doing the interview process and they'll get a candidate come in and think, well, you're not really what I was looking for when I started this process. But now that I've talked to you, I understand that you're maybe why need it happens all the time. So let me take I'm going to rewind, I want to make one of those little. This is where video would be quite handy. You know, can you do Wrigley Wrigley screen thing. But let's go back to the beginning. So where did you grew up? And what were you like at school? So I grew up in Edinburgh, and also with a strong allegiance to Scottish Borders, particularly in the coastal Scottish Borders, just just south of Dunbar. Really? It's quite interesting. If you're from the small town of Dunbar and you think what have we gotten done by well knock down castle, a pretty interesting harbour, a supermarket, but you've also got the small town of the small birthplace of john Muir. And when you work in Silicon Valley in California, it's incredible. Like you have street names, roundabouts, schools, john Muir is like God there now. Okay, he left me to 11. But, you know, it's the best minor point meeting venture capitalists in Silicon Valley. As you see I come from the town of john Muir. And then you're in serious ABCD all the way up to Zed. We were funding you. Yeah. So there is a small thing to think about, which I think is fascinating, which is the journey of john Muir and what he did for the National Parks of America. But yeah, that's that's my home. And then through school in Edinburgh, and then into university at University of Strathclyde, which, you know, the really important academic credential to University of Strathclyde at the time was he had more student bars under one roof and any other university in the country. They had 10 floors of bad behaviour and that building, I think I got myself banned from just about all of them. And then a gap here working in financial services, and then into doing my master's, I think really important for your audience. To appreciate. I did the Scottish tutorial programme and economics masters, which is a very clever idea of pooling talents. So essentially, at Scottish universities would pool their services into one campus, one Master's programme, and that was a really great way of giving you the specialisms you would need to execute on your thesis. So for example, if you're doing your masters at Adam University, but you had a big focus in labour market economics and the best labour market professor was Aberdeen, you will be able to tap into the expertise as part of your Edinburgh based MSC. So I think it's for your listeners, it's a very interesting pooling model of running a Master's programme at universities getting to one campus that can be modelled elsewhere gives you the assurance of a great degree, but also the professor you need to pursue your specialism. I mean, that sounds amazing, I thought, because I talk to people all the time about going to Union in Scotland in general, because you get for years, of course for your undergrad. And one of the things I point out all the time is the fact I did English, literature and linguistics, but because as long as you put your core credits in those subjects, I got to do random stuff in the biology department and, and all kinds of other philosophy and Latin randomly one year as well. And I think that Yeah, there's definitely thinking a lot about how can you get the experience that you need when you're doing your your schooling, if you like, because, like you were, you know, you've obviously brought together your love of music and economics, you hear that language and people talk about starting their own business or being an entrepreneur, but you don't necessarily hear that language when it comes to you can bring things together actually, in your studies. You don't have to be isolated into one thing or another. You can bring things together. Before you even get started. Can I just ask a quick question before you get to uni? What kind of stuff Did you like? School skateboarding. And skateboarding. Big fan of Art and Design. Yeah, very interested in politics. But beyond school, I think, you know, I mentioned in the book from a very early age, I was not just introduced to the concept of economics. But my, my father, who's a math teacher at school in Scotland, taught me how to teach economics. And that's really, really interesting easing. He taught me how to teach economics before I was able to learn it. And what I liked about that was he always made me think about how your best intentions could make the problem worse, that could go for, you know, your life as a as a student at primary school or high school or into university, but also in politics, how introduce a policy to solve the problem can make the problem worse. And in the book, I give a really good example, I think it was 11 years old. So still, you're wrapping up Primary School at Tule. Cross Primary School in the heart of Edinburgh. We're at the beach in the Scottish Borders. And, you know, I said to my dad, well, what does economics mean? You know, he taught my older brother Tom, what economics is you got to teach me I wanted sibling rivalries kicking in I need to catch up with it. Give me the same goods that you gave him because the word economics is intriguing. I wonder what it means. So we're at this beach and in the Scottish Borders. And my dad said, Let's imagine you're the Prime Minister. Okay, my weapon, but we'll go with this. He said, Well, look out here on the beach. Now imagine I told you that 20 odd children drowned fatally in British waters last year, and there's hysteria going on. And you're at number 10 Downing Street. And you have to come up with a policy response to the fact that all these kids are drowning in British waters, and you've got grieving parents staring at you, you've got angry politicians, you've got a hostile press, tell him what your policy response is going to be. That's okay. Let's just work with savoia to we're at this beach, we're looking at your kids playing in the water. And obviously, there's a problem that which needs to solve, which is that kids are drowning in the water. And I got to come up with my policy. So my policy swans I don't know what you would say, Jennifer, but my policy response was to make swimming compulsory for abroad. Okay, so you really want to solve the problem. You're upset your 11 year old kid and you're crying because you're hearing that kids are drowning in British beaches? Yeah. So that's a great, that's politics. Now let's do some economics. What do we know about what happened? Cuz drone dad now makes me sad. Okay. Yeah. Where were the kids? They were in the war that and what does that tell you about their ability to swim or not? That means they can swim that? Why did you say that? Because kids who can't swim, don't go into water. And then the penny dropped, my policy would make swimming compulsory so all kids could swim, which means we would have more kids in the water as opposed to less now 0.001% of them dry and fatally an accident, you'd have more deaths as opposed to less and you can quickly see how the economist is building a model in this area. And that was the moment for me where I realise this is my subject. This is what fascinates me is how you can challenge your own logic by realising your best intentions of mice and men to quote that famous Scottish poet could actually make the problems worse, dad, dad died, I don't want workers to don't want less want to solve the problem. So what's the solution? And he talked about inflammation, you know, how about alerting parents to what the dangerous beaches are? How about a flag system? Red, Amber green is to the state of the undercurrents give the kids the information to know when it's safe to go into the water and you can reduce the risk of them drowning. But making it compulsory without any questions that was my sole policy response would have made the problem worse. So that's a really knew we'd go back to what did they learn at school? Forget school for a second when I learned that lesson. I knew that somewhere along the line and allowed myself in a career in economics. That's amazing. And honestly, parallel so many conversations I think we're having today because one of the you know, one of the things about discover economics is that, you know, we're trying to open up the field of economics and get more diversity. And you know, whether that's ethnic diversity, gender diversity and cognitive diversity, just Yes, absolutely. Let me give you a very quick flipside of cognitive diversity. So my first day when I moved to London in 2006, the same question that you've just asked was asked to me by the General Counsel of the Performing Rights society, a wonderful woman, you're top of our legal gaming copyright. And she said, How did you discover economics? They told her the story of being 11 years old, being at the beach, my dad, I wanted to solve the problem, but I made the problem worse and went through that story in your perfect articulate fashion, as you put down a knife and fork over lunch and said, I'd have just banned the kids from swimming. That's like, wow. Yeah, a lawyer sees a problem ban people from doing it. And that solves a problem and economist sees a problem. We have to do kind of reverse logic as to what will actually solve the problem. I thought. This is a very useful anecdote to hold on to here. We're learning A lot of different mindsets here. So cognitive diversity in the legal profession, I think is required as well. 100%. And that actually, that that reminds me of something you said in your recent article for LSE, when you're talking about, you know, analysing people's behaviour. Yeah. Because you can't legislate for people's behaviour. Like, I don't know about you growing up especially or even now, you know, there's a certain thing of, well, I'm a bit of a goody two shoes, I have to say, and it was a sward school, although we've established before we started record, and most of us to believe that no, person, my problem is that my, probably my definition of bad behaviour and good behaviour is different to most people's. That's the difference. Also, I, you know, hugely aware of the kind of public consciousness that as soon as you say something is not allowed, you're kind of pushing people to try and do it. It's like a red flag to a lot of people. And it's not necessarily like you said, If you ban swimming in the sea, great, but you know that it's the people who are not the strongest of swimmers, not the more sensible when it comes to thinking about under currents, and all the rest of it is going to be people who get drunk on a Saturday night at a beach party, who are then going to jump in the sea, because it seems like a good idea. So I love what you've said in a lot of your work about, you know, you've got to think about the behaviour as well. And you know, and I think that's where my interest in economics as a subject comes from, as well. Obviously, I don't have any experience or background, but I do. One of the reasons we're doing this podcast is because I want people to understand exactly what it means and the storytelling and the reality and the application of it if you like, which is why I love your story. Because, you know, if we put you in front of a bunch of school kids, you're probably as far away from what young people think an economist is when they see them on the news talking about inflation. You know, that's very far away from what you do. I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about your time working at the Scottish Government while being a dg have an evening because I feel like that is also something that people could relate to quite a lot and will be surprising, perhaps a Batman lifestyles best way to describe it by daily wearing a charcoal black suit, blue shirt, red tie, and doing some of the most boring work known to man, like local income tax reform, wonderful icebreaker. Yeah, and then by night, I found myself you know, desperately trying to get into the music industry. So I started writing for an award winning publication called straightening chaser, which is run by quite a famous DJ in Britain called Charles Pearson. And, you know, I was specialising in working with Philadelphia hip hop artists, particularly the roo


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